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	<title>Comments on: Math is hard</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/</link>
	<description>Dedicated to the mathematical arts.</description>
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		<title>By: rdeanwizard</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>rdeanwizard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Of course it&#039;s hard.  It helps keep out the riffraff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it&#8217;s hard.  It helps keep out the riffraff.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-241</guid>
		<description>All the mathematics that I have mastered is trivial, everything else is inescapably hard.

Math is hard, just like learning any OTHER language is hard.

     Sigfpe Says: Think of subjects like algebraic topology where much of 
                         the fancy machinery is just a way to allow formal notation
                         to get a handle on things that a child already knows 
                         intuitively.

You know a lot children with an intuitive grasp of homological algebra?!?
I mean, the 5 lemma sure, but I am sure most of them have a little trouble with the snake lemma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the mathematics that I have mastered is trivial, everything else is inescapably hard.</p>
<p>Math is hard, just like learning any OTHER language is hard.</p>
<p>     Sigfpe Says: Think of subjects like algebraic topology where much of<br />
                         the fancy machinery is just a way to allow formal notation<br />
                         to get a handle on things that a child already knows<br />
                         intuitively.</p>
<p>You know a lot children with an intuitive grasp of homological algebra?!?<br />
I mean, the 5 lemma sure, but I am sure most of them have a little trouble with the snake lemma.</p>
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		<title>By: KorayC</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>KorayC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 07:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-233</guid>
		<description>Another late reply. &quot;Hard&quot; by itself is a bit meaningless. Anything that you do that pays (deservedly) more than the average salary is hard by definition. However, math is so precise and hard to argue with that everybody can find a problem which they admit they cannot solve. You can&#039;t get that kind of certainty in other fields. This is what gives the impression that math is hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another late reply. &#8220;Hard&#8221; by itself is a bit meaningless. Anything that you do that pays (deservedly) more than the average salary is hard by definition. However, math is so precise and hard to argue with that everybody can find a problem which they admit they cannot solve. You can&#8217;t get that kind of certainty in other fields. This is what gives the impression that math is hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabien Besnard</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabien Besnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-232</guid>
		<description>Sigfpe (hopefully I don&#039;t have to pronounce this...) I really like what you say, it&#039;s really nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigfpe (hopefully I don&#8217;t have to pronounce this&#8230;) I really like what you say, it&#8217;s really nice.</p>
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		<title>By: sigfpe</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>sigfpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-231</guid>
		<description>And just a general point about mathematics education following up on some earlier comments. I know quite a few people who lecture mathematics. They almost all have strong opinions on mathematics education and can hold forth for hours on how everyone else makes the subject harder than it is and if only everyone else used the methods that they themselves used people would find the subject easier. And they are mostly terrible lecturers and seem to have no clue that they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just a general point about mathematics education following up on some earlier comments. I know quite a few people who lecture mathematics. They almost all have strong opinions on mathematics education and can hold forth for hours on how everyone else makes the subject harder than it is and if only everyone else used the methods that they themselves used people would find the subject easier. And they are mostly terrible lecturers and seem to have no clue that they are.</p>
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		<title>By: sigfpe</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>sigfpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Math is hard. I used to think it was ridiculous the way someone doing a PhD in chemistry, say, could get their qualification simply by carrying out the experiment their supervisor told them to. In mathematics you have to create new mathematics out of nowhere. In just about any other subject I have studied you can get away with simply applying yourself diligently - but in mathematics solving problems frequently needs a flash of insight that goes beyond anything you have been taught.

Math is easy. Like many of my colleagues I sailed through my degree hardly lifting a finger to work. Once you grok a theorem, say, it becomes obvious and more or less unforgettable. I used to feel sorry for people studying a subject like chemistry who had to memorise an immense body of empirically determined facts to get anywhere. There&#039;s little to memorise in mathematics and no need to work late into the night cramming arbitrary facts.

Math is hard. Just look at how much effort it takes to explain even the most elementary mathematics to a non-specialist. Pick up a mathematics textbook you&#039;ve never read before. It&#039;s not at all unusual for anything just one page beyond where you have already read to be completely incomprehensible. Mathematics texts pile up layer after layer of definition and abstraction which you have to &#039;get&#039; before you can proceed. I can pick up a textbook in a subject like genetics, say, and get the gist of just about any chapter. Conceptually, he subject is more or less trivial and mastering it is just about learning some details.

Math is easy. Time and time again when you get to what appears to be a difficult result you realise it&#039;s fancy language for a trivial intuition or concept. Think of subjects like algebraic topology where much of the fancy machinery is just a way to allow formal notation to get a handle on things that a child already knows intuitively.

Math is hard. I can&#039;t tell you how many times I&#039;ve been stuck there looking at a theorem knowing that everything I need is spelled out there in front of me and yet not being able to put the pieces together. It&#039;s not like I can blame it on a missing fact that I need from another book that requires the work of going down to the library to look something up. This is a completely different kind of work - just you battling against your own mind. I don&#039;t know of anything harder, sometimes, than trying to put those pieces together so that they fit together as a logical whole. You can&#039;t just try to memorise the theorem. If you don&#039;t get it then you won&#039;t be able to use it. There&#039;s no guarantee that if you just spend 12 hours looking at it you&#039;ll have done the required work. No other subject begins to compare with the difficulty of doing this for a challenging proof.

Math is easy. Of course it is, I&#039;m a lazy ba*tard and couldn&#039;t have studied anything else.

Math is whatever you like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Math is hard. I used to think it was ridiculous the way someone doing a PhD in chemistry, say, could get their qualification simply by carrying out the experiment their supervisor told them to. In mathematics you have to create new mathematics out of nowhere. In just about any other subject I have studied you can get away with simply applying yourself diligently &#8211; but in mathematics solving problems frequently needs a flash of insight that goes beyond anything you have been taught.</p>
<p>Math is easy. Like many of my colleagues I sailed through my degree hardly lifting a finger to work. Once you grok a theorem, say, it becomes obvious and more or less unforgettable. I used to feel sorry for people studying a subject like chemistry who had to memorise an immense body of empirically determined facts to get anywhere. There&#8217;s little to memorise in mathematics and no need to work late into the night cramming arbitrary facts.</p>
<p>Math is hard. Just look at how much effort it takes to explain even the most elementary mathematics to a non-specialist. Pick up a mathematics textbook you&#8217;ve never read before. It&#8217;s not at all unusual for anything just one page beyond where you have already read to be completely incomprehensible. Mathematics texts pile up layer after layer of definition and abstraction which you have to &#8216;get&#8217; before you can proceed. I can pick up a textbook in a subject like genetics, say, and get the gist of just about any chapter. Conceptually, he subject is more or less trivial and mastering it is just about learning some details.</p>
<p>Math is easy. Time and time again when you get to what appears to be a difficult result you realise it&#8217;s fancy language for a trivial intuition or concept. Think of subjects like algebraic topology where much of the fancy machinery is just a way to allow formal notation to get a handle on things that a child already knows intuitively.</p>
<p>Math is hard. I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve been stuck there looking at a theorem knowing that everything I need is spelled out there in front of me and yet not being able to put the pieces together. It&#8217;s not like I can blame it on a missing fact that I need from another book that requires the work of going down to the library to look something up. This is a completely different kind of work &#8211; just you battling against your own mind. I don&#8217;t know of anything harder, sometimes, than trying to put those pieces together so that they fit together as a logical whole. You can&#8217;t just try to memorise the theorem. If you don&#8217;t get it then you won&#8217;t be able to use it. There&#8217;s no guarantee that if you just spend 12 hours looking at it you&#8217;ll have done the required work. No other subject begins to compare with the difficulty of doing this for a challenging proof.</p>
<p>Math is easy. Of course it is, I&#8217;m a lazy ba*tard and couldn&#8217;t have studied anything else.</p>
<p>Math is whatever you like.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabien Besnard</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabien Besnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2006 09:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-226</guid>
		<description>What is easy is indulging ourself with our feelings and intuitions (what I&#039;m doing right now !). As opposed to this, any form of rigourous thinking is hard. Being the most rigourous of all, math is probably the hardest in this respect. But there is another thing which is easy : that is repeating ceaselessly what we have learned to do. In this respect math can be very easy. To sum up I would say that the human mind is at ease when it is repeating or believing something, and has the greatest difficulties when it comes to rigour and invention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is easy is indulging ourself with our feelings and intuitions (what I&#8217;m doing right now !). As opposed to this, any form of rigourous thinking is hard. Being the most rigourous of all, math is probably the hardest in this respect. But there is another thing which is easy : that is repeating ceaselessly what we have learned to do. In this respect math can be very easy. To sum up I would say that the human mind is at ease when it is repeating or believing something, and has the greatest difficulties when it comes to rigour and invention.</p>
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		<title>By: Ars Mathematica &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Other posts on &#8220;Math is hard&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Ars Mathematica &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Other posts on &#8220;Math is hard&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-225</guid>
		<description>[...] Ars Mathematica Dedicated to the mathematical arts.      &#171; Math is hard [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ars Mathematica Dedicated to the mathematical arts.      &laquo; Math is hard [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PeterMcB</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterMcB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-223</guid>
		<description>I think there are genuinely hard concepts in math, although perhaps many of these don&#039;t get taught at high school -- eg, infinity, countable vs. uncountable infinities, complex numbers, probability, to name just a few.  I think these concepts are hard because fall outside our general everyday life experience. 

Probability is an interesting case, since most people who studied it these last 300 years thought they knew what it was.  There have, however, always been dissidents (starting with Leibniz), who have argued against the standard view of probability (that formalized with the Kolmogorov axioms) as the only or best model of uncertainty.  The most recent dissidents have been people in AI trying to build expert systems, who have since the 1970s developed several formal alternatives to the Kolmogorov axioms (although most statisticians and probabilists seem ignorant of this work).  The concept is not an easy one at all, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are genuinely hard concepts in math, although perhaps many of these don&#8217;t get taught at high school &#8212; eg, infinity, countable vs. uncountable infinities, complex numbers, probability, to name just a few.  I think these concepts are hard because fall outside our general everyday life experience. </p>
<p>Probability is an interesting case, since most people who studied it these last 300 years thought they knew what it was.  There have, however, always been dissidents (starting with Leibniz), who have argued against the standard view of probability (that formalized with the Kolmogorov axioms) as the only or best model of uncertainty.  The most recent dissidents have been people in AI trying to build expert systems, who have since the 1970s developed several formal alternatives to the Kolmogorov axioms (although most statisticians and probabilists seem ignorant of this work).  The concept is not an easy one at all, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Algebraowl</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2005/12/26/math-is-hard/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>Algebraowl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=192#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Posted in my classroom:
&quot;It is impossible to learn and be perfect at the same time.&quot;
One of the biggest hurtles in any math classroom is how unwilling students are to risk being wrong.  Students would rather get an &quot;F&quot; or detention or whatever by not doing anything rather than take a chance that their answers to questions might be wrong.
That is why &quot;math is hard.&quot;  There are correct answers and we live in a culture that is brutal when someone is not &quot;right.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Posted in my classroom:<br />
&#8220;It is impossible to learn and be perfect at the same time.&#8221;<br />
One of the biggest hurtles in any math classroom is how unwilling students are to risk being wrong.  Students would rather get an &#8220;F&#8221; or detention or whatever by not doing anything rather than take a chance that their answers to questions might be wrong.<br />
That is why &#8220;math is hard.&#8221;  There are correct answers and we live in a culture that is brutal when someone is not &#8220;right.&#8221;</p>
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