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	<title>Comments on: Proof Style</title>
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	<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/</link>
	<description>Dedicated to the mathematical arts.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Judicael Courant</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-64437</link>
		<dc:creator>Judicael Courant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Todd,

Thanks for that nice proof of Schroeder-Bernstein.

However, in your proof of Lemma: Any monotone function h: PX –&gt; PX has a fixed point T, I guess the set you consider is the intersection of $latex \{S \in PX: h(S) \subseteq S\}$ instead of $latex \{S \in PX: S \subseteq h(S)\}$ (the intersection of the latter clearly is empty).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd,</p>
<p>Thanks for that nice proof of Schroeder-Bernstein.</p>
<p>However, in your proof of Lemma: Any monotone function h: PX –&gt; PX has a fixed point T, I guess the set you consider is the intersection of $latex \{S \in PX: h(S) \subseteq S\}$ instead of $latex \{S \in PX: S \subseteq h(S)\}$ (the intersection of the latter clearly is empty).</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Foxx mp3s</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-63514</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Foxx mp3s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 05:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/#comment-63514</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Jamie Foxx Destroys Doug Williams in Comedy Roast...&lt;/strong&gt;

Foxx released hisfirst studio disc, Unpredictable,  in December 2005. It debuted at number two, selling 598,000 copies in its first week....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Jamie Foxx Destroys Doug Williams in Comedy Roast&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Foxx released hisfirst studio disc, Unpredictable,  in December 2005. It debuted at number two, selling 598,000 copies in its first week&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: George Butler</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59748</link>
		<dc:creator>George Butler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 15:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/#comment-59748</guid>
		<description>Proofs and art have a lot in common.  The old masters guide contemporary art. For polish and beauty I recommend Grundlagen der Analysis by Edmund Lanudau.  Any mathematician can improve their proofs by trying to reach the standards he set in this timeless work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proofs and art have a lot in common.  The old masters guide contemporary art. For polish and beauty I recommend Grundlagen der Analysis by Edmund Lanudau.  Any mathematician can improve their proofs by trying to reach the standards he set in this timeless work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Freeze</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59627</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Freeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 05:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anonymous: Wouldn't it be more labor-efficient to develope better virtual testing for hyper-complex asynchronous protocols and forget about "proving" what works? 

(The captcha words for this post were "Mr Scientist," so I had to write something suitably Baconian.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous: Wouldn&#8217;t it be more labor-efficient to develope better virtual testing for hyper-complex asynchronous protocols and forget about &#8220;proving&#8221; what works? </p>
<p>(The captcha words for this post were &#8220;Mr Scientist,&#8221; so I had to write something suitably Baconian.)</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Trimble</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59548</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Trimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anonymous -- thanks for the clarification. Wow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous &#8212; thanks for the clarification. Wow.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59545</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Anonymous, thanks, that’s very interesting! And it confirms what I think Slawekk was suggesting. &lt;/i&gt;

Actually, I meant something a little different.  I read Slawekk's comment as dealing with the ease of formal verifiability by computers, but Lamport's worked up about a different issue (he doesn't work on computer verification).  In his work with asynchronous distributed systems, things can get extremely subtle and counterintuitive.  It's easy to come up with a protocol that sounds like it should work, and even to find a compelling argument for why it should work, when the protocol is inherently defective.  If you're unlucky, the proof will sound good enough that you're sure formalizing it is merely a matter of writing down a few trivial details.  Such "proofs" often get published in this area.  The problem is that the objects of study are tremendously complicated and frequently pathological.  Plus, the details are crucial: it's not enough to convince yourself that there exists a protocol that probably works; instead, you want to know whether this particular protocol definitely works.

Most of conceptual mathematics is quite different.  There are certainly many subtleties and some pathologies, but there's a lot of intuition underlying most of mathematics, and mathematicians have spent the last couple of centuries working hard to develop a powerful intuition about the subtleties (quantifying ordering as in uniform continuity, etc.).  I don't know whether this is even possible in Lamport's area, but it hasn't been done yet.

So, basically, Lamport honestly believes mainstream mathematicians regularly prove false theorems using techniques that simply cannot be made to work, and he believes this happens on all levels (not just for unimportant theorems in obscure journals nobody reads, but for major, famous theorems).  In his view, if we carefully wrote out our work using two-column proofs, we'd find irreparable logical errors in about a third of our proofs.  I'm convinced he's nuts, at least as far as this opinion goes, and he's convinced that mathematicians are deluding themselves and unwilling to risk trying this project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Anonymous, thanks, that’s very interesting! And it confirms what I think Slawekk was suggesting. </i></p>
<p>Actually, I meant something a little different.  I read Slawekk&#8217;s comment as dealing with the ease of formal verifiability by computers, but Lamport&#8217;s worked up about a different issue (he doesn&#8217;t work on computer verification).  In his work with asynchronous distributed systems, things can get extremely subtle and counterintuitive.  It&#8217;s easy to come up with a protocol that sounds like it should work, and even to find a compelling argument for why it should work, when the protocol is inherently defective.  If you&#8217;re unlucky, the proof will sound good enough that you&#8217;re sure formalizing it is merely a matter of writing down a few trivial details.  Such &#8220;proofs&#8221; often get published in this area.  The problem is that the objects of study are tremendously complicated and frequently pathological.  Plus, the details are crucial: it&#8217;s not enough to convince yourself that there exists a protocol that probably works; instead, you want to know whether this particular protocol definitely works.</p>
<p>Most of conceptual mathematics is quite different.  There are certainly many subtleties and some pathologies, but there&#8217;s a lot of intuition underlying most of mathematics, and mathematicians have spent the last couple of centuries working hard to develop a powerful intuition about the subtleties (quantifying ordering as in uniform continuity, etc.).  I don&#8217;t know whether this is even possible in Lamport&#8217;s area, but it hasn&#8217;t been done yet.</p>
<p>So, basically, Lamport honestly believes mainstream mathematicians regularly prove false theorems using techniques that simply cannot be made to work, and he believes this happens on all levels (not just for unimportant theorems in obscure journals nobody reads, but for major, famous theorems).  In his view, if we carefully wrote out our work using two-column proofs, we&#8217;d find irreparable logical errors in about a third of our proofs.  I&#8217;m convinced he&#8217;s nuts, at least as far as this opinion goes, and he&#8217;s convinced that mathematicians are deluding themselves and unwilling to risk trying this project.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Trimble</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59530</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Trimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/#comment-59530</guid>
		<description>Bah. Walt, could you fix this please? The remainder should have read: 

Proof: Let T be the intersection of the set $latex \{S \in PX: S \subseteq h(S)\}$. Since h is monotone, $latex h(T) \subseteq h(S) \subseteq S$ for every $latex S$ in this set, and therefore $latex h(T) \subseteq T$. Applying the monotone function h again, $latex h h(T) \subseteq h(T)$. It follows that $latex h(T)$ belongs to this set, and therefore $latex T \subseteq h(T)$. Hence $latex T = h(T)$.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bah. Walt, could you fix this please? The remainder should have read: </p>
<p>Proof: Let T be the intersection of the set $latex \{S \in PX: S \subseteq h(S)\}$. Since h is monotone, $latex h(T) \subseteq h(S) \subseteq S$ for every $latex S$ in this set, and therefore $latex h(T) \subseteq T$. Applying the monotone function h again, $latex h h(T) \subseteq h(T)$. It follows that $latex h(T)$ belongs to this set, and therefore $latex T \subseteq h(T)$. Hence $latex T = h(T)$.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Trimble</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59529</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Trimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/#comment-59529</guid>
		<description>Anonymous, thanks, that's very interesting! And it confirms what I think Slawekk was suggesting. 

Speaking of Schroeder-Bernstein: most of the proofs I've seen are fussy and aesthetically unappealing to me. I prefer a more abstract proof as follows: suppose that f: X --&gt; Y and g: Y --&gt; X are injective. Let PX denote the power set of X. Define a monotone function PX --&gt; PX which sends a subset S of X to not g(not f(S)), where "not" denotes complementation. If this function has a fixed point T [i.e., if g(not f(T)) = not T], then we can define a bijection X --&gt; Y which takes x to f(x) if x belongs to T, and x to g^{-1}(x) if x belongs to not(T). 

Lemma: Any monotone function h: PX --&gt; PX has a fixed point T. 
Proof: Let T be the intersection of the set {S in PX: h(S) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous, thanks, that&#8217;s very interesting! And it confirms what I think Slawekk was suggesting. </p>
<p>Speaking of Schroeder-Bernstein: most of the proofs I&#8217;ve seen are fussy and aesthetically unappealing to me. I prefer a more abstract proof as follows: suppose that f: X &#8211;&gt; Y and g: Y &#8211;&gt; X are injective. Let PX denote the power set of X. Define a monotone function PX &#8211;&gt; PX which sends a subset S of X to not g(not f(S)), where &#8220;not&#8221; denotes complementation. If this function has a fixed point T [i.e., if g(not f(T)) = not T], then we can define a bijection X &#8211;&gt; Y which takes x to f(x) if x belongs to T, and x to g^{-1}(x) if x belongs to not(T). </p>
<p>Lemma: Any monotone function h: PX &#8211;&gt; PX has a fixed point T.<br />
Proof: Let T be the intersection of the set {S in PX: h(S)</p>
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		<title>By: A Question of Style &#171; 360</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59525</link>
		<dc:creator>A Question of Style &#171; 360</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/#comment-59525</guid>
		<description>[...] of&#160;Style  There&#8217;s an interesting discussion going on over at Ars Mathematica about proof styles, beginning with the question, &#8220;What makes a well-written proof?&#8221; I don&#8217;t have a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of&nbsp;Style  There&#8217;s an interesting discussion going on over at Ars Mathematica about proof styles, beginning with the question, &#8220;What makes a well-written proof?&#8221; I don&#8217;t have a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/comment-page-1/#comment-59523</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/03/22/proof-style/#comment-59523</guid>
		<description>I fixed the link in John Cook's comment.  It was Wordpress's fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fixed the link in John Cook&#8217;s comment.  It was Wordpress&#8217;s fault.</p>
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