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	<title>Comments on: Groups of groups</title>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Math&#8217;s use of language : Tafakuri</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-62364</link>
		<dc:creator>Math&#8217;s use of language : Tafakuri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] out the comments for the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] out the comments for the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: beans</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61937</link>
		<dc:creator>beans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61937</guid>
		<description>*shudders* I don't like groups very much. I sometimes don't like algebra very much if I'm being honest. And if I carry on in this honest mode, I don't really know what I like! No wonder I can't choose what flippin' modules to choose!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*shudders* I don&#8217;t like groups very much. I sometimes don&#8217;t like algebra very much if I&#8217;m being honest. And if I carry on in this honest mode, I don&#8217;t really know what I like! No wonder I can&#8217;t choose what flippin&#8217; modules to choose!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kinyon</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61664</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kinyon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 05:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61664</guid>
		<description>Despite what some might have you believe, the magma sense of "groupoid" is not dead. It is still the preferred term for sets with a single binary operation in much of central and eastern Europe. For instance, no one in the "Prague school" (Charles University's algebra department and their descendants) would ever use "magma". Also note that MSC 20N02 is still called "Sets with a single binary operation (groupoids)", and many papers are published with that usage. To those folks, the other type are Brandt groupoids.

I say all this as someone who personally prefers the term "magma", by the way. Perhaps the next time Mathematical Reviews carries out one of their classification revisions, someone should lobby for MSC 20N02 to be called "Magmas".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite what some might have you believe, the magma sense of &#8220;groupoid&#8221; is not dead. It is still the preferred term for sets with a single binary operation in much of central and eastern Europe. For instance, no one in the &#8220;Prague school&#8221; (Charles University&#8217;s algebra department and their descendants) would ever use &#8220;magma&#8221;. Also note that MSC 20N02 is still called &#8220;Sets with a single binary operation (groupoids)&#8221;, and many papers are published with that usage. To those folks, the other type are Brandt groupoids.</p>
<p>I say all this as someone who personally prefers the term &#8220;magma&#8221;, by the way. Perhaps the next time Mathematical Reviews carries out one of their classification revisions, someone should lobby for MSC 20N02 to be called &#8220;Magmas&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: estraven</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61490</link>
		<dc:creator>estraven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@lavelle: locally ringed space means the following. 
You have a topological space, and you want to build on it something like, say, continuous or holomorphic functions. So you insiste that they are a sheaf (i.e., you can define a continuous function locally and than glue) and that they are rings (sum and product of continuous functions is continuous). This gives you a ringed space.
But then... you want them to be functions in the sense that you want to be able to say if at a given point they are nonzero. Moreover, if they are nonzero at a point, they should be nonzero and invertible in a neighborhood of that point. Surprisingly enough, this is equivalent to the locally ringed space assumption. At least that's what I think - I never saw it written anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lavelle: locally ringed space means the following.<br />
You have a topological space, and you want to build on it something like, say, continuous or holomorphic functions. So you insiste that they are a sheaf (i.e., you can define a continuous function locally and than glue) and that they are rings (sum and product of continuous functions is continuous). This gives you a ringed space.<br />
But then&#8230; you want them to be functions in the sense that you want to be able to say if at a given point they are nonzero. Moreover, if they are nonzero at a point, they should be nonzero and invertible in a neighborhood of that point. Surprisingly enough, this is equivalent to the locally ringed space assumption. At least that&#8217;s what I think - I never saw it written anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61450</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61450</guid>
		<description>If you throw away all of the topological information, a pseudogroup is just a group with the closure axiom dropped.  Pseudogroups are interesting mainly for the interplay of topological and algebraic aspects.  If you drop both of these, and just consider a set with a single partially-defined binary operation, there isn't much you can say.  At that point, nothing much is gained by restricting yourself to a single binary operation, so you might as well study a set with any number of nullary, unary, binary, etc. operations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you throw away all of the topological information, a pseudogroup is just a group with the closure axiom dropped.  Pseudogroups are interesting mainly for the interplay of topological and algebraic aspects.  If you drop both of these, and just consider a set with a single partially-defined binary operation, there isn&#8217;t much you can say.  At that point, nothing much is gained by restricting yourself to a single binary operation, so you might as well study a set with any number of nullary, unary, binary, etc. operations.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Freeze</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61448</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Freeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61448</guid>
		<description>Just when I was poised to enter the history of mathematics (Jacob Freeze, the inventor of mathematical smegma...), you want to fold my baby into &lt;em&gt;pseudogroups&lt;/em&gt;?

&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudogroup" rel="nofollow"&gt;Wikipedia,&lt;/a&gt; which must be a respectable source if an outstanding mathematician like John Baez cites it, says a pseudogroup "is not an axiomatic algebraic idea; rather it defines a set of closure conditions on sets of homeomorphisms defined on open sets U of a given Euclidean space E or more generally of a fixed topological space S."

Is this another mess like the two sorts of groupoids, and I just haven't seen the &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt; pseudogroups floating around in the literature?

The only &lt;a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.1320" rel="nofollow"&gt;instances&lt;/a&gt; that I know of where pseudogroups appear in the context of universal algebra apparently take over the usual topological concept of pseudogroups, although I can never quite imagine how &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; sort of group emerges on the other side of the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_algebra" rel="nofollow"&gt;universal-algebra&lt;/a&gt; grinder that breaks down the binary operation of groups into a weird mix of nullary, unary, and binary operations. 

There’s obviously something behind your all-too-brief comment that I don’t understand, and maybe you can provide a link to some manifestation of pseudogroups that doesn’t involve higher-order &lt;em&gt;topological&lt;/em&gt; operations like homeomorphisms, or at least presents them in a way that makes the reduction of the relevant set of operations on homeomorphisms to something simpler than a magma more transparent.

At a level far below homeomorphisms in the hierarchy of topological concepts, even some components of the Wikipedia definition of a pseudogroup as simple as &lt;em&gt;inverses&lt;/em&gt; may not exist for any element of a smegma, where the range of leaky operations is absolutely unrestricted. For example, it’s perfectly possible to define a smegma that maps every real number onto &lt;a href="http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/original/Pam_Anderson_s_X-ray.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;Pamela Anderson,&lt;/a&gt; and once you arrive at Pamela Anderson, there's no way back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just when I was poised to enter the history of mathematics (Jacob Freeze, the inventor of mathematical smegma&#8230;), you want to fold my baby into <em>pseudogroups</em>?</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudogroup" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia,</a> which must be a respectable source if an outstanding mathematician like John Baez cites it, says a pseudogroup &#8220;is not an axiomatic algebraic idea; rather it defines a set of closure conditions on sets of homeomorphisms defined on open sets U of a given Euclidean space E or more generally of a fixed topological space S.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is this another mess like the two sorts of groupoids, and I just haven&#8217;t seen the <em>other</em> pseudogroups floating around in the literature?</p>
<p>The only <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.1320" rel="nofollow">instances</a> that I know of where pseudogroups appear in the context of universal algebra apparently take over the usual topological concept of pseudogroups, although I can never quite imagine how <em>any</em> sort of group emerges on the other side of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_algebra" rel="nofollow">universal-algebra</a> grinder that breaks down the binary operation of groups into a weird mix of nullary, unary, and binary operations. </p>
<p>There’s obviously something behind your all-too-brief comment that I don’t understand, and maybe you can provide a link to some manifestation of pseudogroups that doesn’t involve higher-order <em>topological</em> operations like homeomorphisms, or at least presents them in a way that makes the reduction of the relevant set of operations on homeomorphisms to something simpler than a magma more transparent.</p>
<p>At a level far below homeomorphisms in the hierarchy of topological concepts, even some components of the Wikipedia definition of a pseudogroup as simple as <em>inverses</em> may not exist for any element of a smegma, where the range of leaky operations is absolutely unrestricted. For example, it’s perfectly possible to define a smegma that maps every real number onto <a href="http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/original/Pam_Anderson_s_X-ray.jpg" rel="nofollow">Pamela Anderson,</a> and once you arrive at Pamela Anderson, there&#8217;s no way back.</p>
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		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61447</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You jest, Jacob, but it's been done.  Pseudogroups have a partially-defined multiplication.  The natural generalization is to allow any number of partially-defined operations of any arity, which has been studied as part of universal algebra.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You jest, Jacob, but it&#8217;s been done.  Pseudogroups have a partially-defined multiplication.  The natural generalization is to allow any number of partially-defined operations of any arity, which has been studied as part of universal algebra.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Freeze</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61443</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Freeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61443</guid>
		<description>Structures that lie above a magma in the mathematical hierarchy have been catalogued so exhaustively that it's only fair to glance in the other direction, and inquire about the possibility of mathematical objects even more formless than a magma.

Since a magma only conforms to the sole condition of closure under a binary operation, the most obvious way to weaken conditions would allow &lt;em&gt;partial&lt;/em&gt; closure, so that the result of a few pairings leaks out of the underlying set.

I can already see a whole theory of non-leaky cycles developing on subsets where repeated application of the "operation" never oozes out of the original domain, but before research on our newly invented mathematical object can begin in earnest, it needs a name, and in analogy with the magma that engendered it, I propose that we call it a &lt;em&gt;smegma.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Structures that lie above a magma in the mathematical hierarchy have been catalogued so exhaustively that it&#8217;s only fair to glance in the other direction, and inquire about the possibility of mathematical objects even more formless than a magma.</p>
<p>Since a magma only conforms to the sole condition of closure under a binary operation, the most obvious way to weaken conditions would allow <em>partial</em> closure, so that the result of a few pairings leaks out of the underlying set.</p>
<p>I can already see a whole theory of non-leaky cycles developing on subsets where repeated application of the &#8220;operation&#8221; never oozes out of the original domain, but before research on our newly invented mathematical object can begin in earnest, it needs a name, and in analogy with the magma that engendered it, I propose that we call it a <em>smegma.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Freeze</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61423</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Freeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 05:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61423</guid>
		<description>Let's not forget left and right semimedial magmas, along with their fertile cousins the trimedial magmas, which can generate a medial submagma out of any three elements, and finally the most exotic branch of the family tree, the left and right &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unar" rel="nofollow"&gt;unars,&lt;/a&gt; which the Wikipedia article cited by John Baez links to Unar (Urdu: انڑ ), "one of the most purest [sic] and oldest Sindhi tribe [sic] in Sindh, Pakistan."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget left and right semimedial magmas, along with their fertile cousins the trimedial magmas, which can generate a medial submagma out of any three elements, and finally the most exotic branch of the family tree, the left and right <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unar" rel="nofollow">unars,</a> which the Wikipedia article cited by John Baez links to Unar (Urdu: انڑ ), &#8220;one of the most purest [sic] and oldest Sindhi tribe [sic] in Sindh, Pakistan.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: stephen lavelle</title>
		<link>http://www.arsmathematica.net/archives/2008/08/22/groups-of-groups/#comment-61421</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen lavelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arsmathematica.net/?p=701#comment-61421</guid>
		<description>"locally ringed spaces" is one that always gets to me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;locally ringed spaces&#8221; is one that always gets to me&#8230;</p>
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